CUSTOMER SERVICE : Subscribe now | How to advertise | Contact us | Mobile edition | RSS feeds

Hawai'i's Newspaper Online      Saturday, July 4, 2009


  • Search Honolulu Advertiser:

BLOGS
The Daily Dish
Akamai Politics
The Warrior Beat
Volcanic Ash
Family Tree
Prep Talk
The Hot Seat
Go Jimmy Go
'Lost' in Hawai'i
View Tube
Hawaii Hacks
Island Real Estate
Quarterlife Café
Hoops Talk
Capitol Notebook
Scene It
Behind the Headlines
Wassap Wit Dat!
Caucus Night
Raising Islands

ARCHIVE
Today's headlines
Back issues

FEATURED NEWS
Nation/World news
Movie showtimes
Special projects
Obituaries
Columnists
Photo gallery

CUSTOMER SERVICE
Help page
Contact us
Subscriber services
Reader services
Advertising services
About us
Site map
Corrections
Today's front page

RESOURCES
Discussion board
Traffic hotspots
Phone directory
Hawaiian dictionary
E-mail news alerts
RSS news feeds
Wireless news
Newspaper in Education
Blood Bank of Hawaii

spacer spacer
Blogs
spacer

Quarterlife Café
Kim Fassler is one of the youngest reporters in the newsroom and has a fresh perspective on issues that matter to 20-somethings, whether it's living with parents, landing a job, making a difference or running screaming from the "real world."
Reach Kim at fassler@honoluluadvertiser.com.
Posted on: January 18, 2008 at 9:51:11 am
Moving out

I recently moved out of my parents' house and into an apartment.

And let me tell you, is it liberating!

Lots of college grads return home to the islands after school, like I did, and move right in with the 'rents. It's pretty great, really. You get your old room back, with all your stuff, a home-cooked meal every night and best of all -- it's FREE.

In Hawaii I think you find a greater percentage of young people living with their parents in the same house they grew up in than in other places. Convenience, as well as the high cost of renting your own place, are big factors.

Also, I think we can't disregard the fact that the way we in Hawaii view living with parents might be different from how some folks on the mainland view such a situation. Our culture here is dominated by Asian traditions and cultural values, one of which is the importance of family.

Now, I'm certainly not saying that people outside Hawaii don't think families are important, I simply think it's most culturally acceptable in the islands to find several generations living under one roof.

However, despite the great situation it may appear to be at first, there are some downsides to living with parents, starting first with the fact that many college grads have gotten used to having their own place or living with roommates of a similar age who don't necessarily question where you're headed at night and don't call the police if you don't come home.

In college, you can go out anytime you like, you can come home anytime you like. With parents, that's hardly the case.

When I came back from the mainland, it wasn't that I wanted to go out every night, meet up with strange people and stay out past 3 a.m. In fact, nowadays, I'm usually in bed by midnight.

It's the fact that IF I had ever wanted to, the freedom to do so simply wasn't there.

I also truly believe (and this is from experience) that many of us who return from school and move in with our parents are putting ourselves at a disadvantage later in life.

With the exception of now working a job instead of going to school, our lives if living with parents aren't that much different than when we were in high school. Sure, we may pay our own cell phone bills and gym memberships, but what about the water and electricity bills? What about shopping for groceries and knowing what to get?

When I moved out, I barely knew how to make more than ramen and rice (in a rice cooker). My roommate once ridiculed me for heating Ragu in the microwave.

Moving out helped me realize that living with my parents had really stunted my growth and maturity in many ways. Ultimately, it took packing up my stuff and getting my own place for me to understand that.

With rents skyrocketing, few young people I know feel they can afford to rent -- let alone own -- their own place. And with the option of living at home being so convenient, it's difficult for many people to convince themselves that living alone would be worth an extra thousand dollars minimum in expenditures per month.

It IS a lot of money.

But I would argue that even if monthly rent makes a significant dent in your paycheck, you ought to weigh that cost with the cost of your sanity, and the benefits of freedom, independence and real world experience.

At 23, I'm not a kid anymore. My total income doesn't consist of $10 allowance a week. It's worth taking a look at your finances and weighing those financial costs with the benefits.

And in the end, go back to those local family values and think also of the benefits to your relationship with your parents. Mom and Dad will want to take care of you as long as they are able. But when you still have the needs of a child, there is a tendency for parents to treat you as such, and that's not healthy for either you or them.

When your parents started giving you an allowance, they did it because they wanted you to learn. And I think my parents would be especially proud of all the learning I've done on my own in these last few months.

Comments:

Comment from: DaBomb [Visitor]
Kim,

Nice Post...totally agree w/ you.

Permalink 01/18/08 @ 10:20
Comment from: hemajang [Visitor]
Good topic Miss Kim. As a parent of 3 adults, we will always be there for them but were probably just as liberating for us as it was for them when they left the nest to go to college or to get their own place. Of course daughter bought a place a couple miles away so we see her almost daily and babysit our grandchildren...so its almost full cycle back to where it started...changing diapers, but I totally enjoy being a grandparent. It is a relief and satisfying that your kids are paying their own bills and living their own lives fairly comfortably...I'm sure your parents are just as happy for you as an independent adult.
Permalink 01/18/08 @ 11:13
Comment from: not so tall soy latte [Visitor]
I believe my friend called it "delayed infancy".

I have a sibling too that graduated years earlier from college. He stayed home at UH for college and is still living with my parents. I envy him; he was able to buy his dream car and has the luxury of having an optional free dinner, laundry service, and free water, electricity, cable.

Meanwhile, I have tons of school loans and rent to keep up with.

Whatever the case, I totally agree with you on moving out; it's a huge learning experience. I'm not quite on my own since I rent and am not responsible for all the utilities. Still, the shock of coming home for Christmas and following my parents' rules again was huge. Not that I'm a party animal or anything...I just don't know how my brother does it. It's too strange to have my parents looking over my shoulder, inquiring where I'm going that night, who I'm eating dinner with.
Permalink 01/18/08 @ 11:17
Comment from: rayboyjr [Visitor]
I think living with parents is fine as long as:

1. You pay rent. Think of your parents as your roommates and pay your share.
2. You pay for your share of the utilities. And pay for everything else you use or eat...no more free dinners! Well, maybe food is ok.
3. Clean and take care of the house as if it were your own.
4. Do your own laundry and ironing. No more "Mom, can you ..."
5. You have freedom to come and go out as you want. Because if you already follow #1, 2, 3, & 4, you have proven that you are a responsible adult and should be treated as such.
Permalink 01/18/08 @ 11:31
Comment from: Beara [Visitor]
I think, for me (I'm 24 years old), the transition from living with my parents to being on my own was made incredibly easy by learning how to do the cooking and cleaning while I was with my parents. My memories of these "chores" started from before I could even reach the kitchen faucet or the washing machine knob. I would have to use a stepladder to cook, do laundry, and wash dishes. And I kept doing these things up until I left. Now, these tasks are easy for me, pretty much second nature. I encourage all parents to get their children learning the little things from an early age so they're not overwhelmed when they need to rely on themselves.
Permalink 01/18/08 @ 11:53
Comment from: jusamee [Visitor] · http://jusamee.vox.com
i agree with rayboyjr, there are different circumstances for living with your parents even after college. i don't think it's just an asian influence either...why the thought process is different here. my husband and i lived with my mom for almost 7 years. we did everything rayboyjr suggested. it wasn't because we were spoiled by living at home, but my dad had passed away and it was an emotional time. my mom needed to adjust to life without him before adjusting to life alone. when we moved out it wasn't because we wanted to party until the break of dawn, but we want to start a family and be able to raise them with our own rules and not moms. i'm not against living with my mom again...if she reaches a time where now she needs us then we'll work things out. but you also pointed out that here in hawaii things aren't cheap and if you don't get a great job right out of high school its not easy to throw down a cool thousand a month on a studio.
Permalink 01/18/08 @ 11:58
Comment from: BC [Visitor]
Do people really learn how to cook AFTER they move out? Some poho, that is. Better than moving out and especially renting in this crazy market, if you can't afford your own mortgage may I suggest hanging out with fishermen and skin divers. At least if get no more roof over head, you can always eat bait. :) Actually, ever heard of a fisherman/diver who didn't know how to cook? Short of that, I just have to say all kidding aside, that infant and family are in my prayers.
Permalink 01/18/08 @ 12:16
Comment from: Marc [Visitor]
Kim, were you off campus or did you dorm during your college carreer and not have to cook while you were away on the mainland? I was assuming that living on my own on the mainland would be pretty much like living on my own here (responsibility-wise), but I could be wrong. What more have you learned living on your own back home? Also, how do you find that many of us who return from school and move in with our parents are putting ourselves at a disadvantage later in life?

I've been looking and wanting to move out for the past 6 months or so, but haven't found the right place (for the price/location) or the courage (to give up the conveniences) to pull the trigger and do it. I have been on my own on the mainland (well, with roomates) and know that I can survive just fine. But the benefit to cost ratio just doesn't seem high enough to me at this time.

Right now I can only afford to rent. The way I see it, renting now versus owning, is kinda like getting a job right after high school versus going to college. You either get the satisfaction now (from being on your own / getting money to spend) and suffer later (not being able to buy your own place / have the same low earning job), or invest now (save what would be spent on rent / getting your degree) and be rewarded later (buying your own place / have a high(er) paying job). Okay, that was probably a little confusing but hopefully its understandable.

You may already know this, but just in case, don't put rice or potatoes down the garbage disposal. I learned that the hard way. But if you do, use vinegar and baking soda and let it work its unclogging magic.
Permalink 01/18/08 @ 12:54
Comment from: Koauka [Visitor]
Paying rent - the ultimate reality check.
Permalink 01/18/08 @ 13:32
Comment from: Robin [Visitor]
I finally 'had' to move out at 28. I got along great with my parents and paid rent to them of $200-300 for several years, which was a bargain considering meals and everything. I spent 2 years renting a small studio in Moilili, and all told, I kind of see it now as wasted money - over $13,000 (1996-98), most of which I could have saved for more down-payment money. Moved back home for just over a year. Then had the fortune of buying a 2-bedroom condo on a top floor of a secured building for $110,000 fee simple. Now, my place is valued at near $300,000 and thanks to a good sized down payment, I pay less in mortgage+maintainance fee than people who rent the same size place several floors down. When I had rented my Moilili place, the old women who rented it to me told me her advice was to avoid if all possible renting and live at home to save up so you can buy a place. A few of my childhood neighbors are still living at home (or returned home after divorce) even in their 30's and 40's.
Permalink 01/18/08 @ 13:40
Comment from: BC [Visitor]
by the way, any constituents of council member Okino should be jumping in their seats right now because he just proposed a bill that wants to increase taxes for people who rent their properties. Actually, the public in general should be roaring. Translation...higher rents for people who can't afford a home because it forces the landlords to pass on the expense to their renters. Are people content with living with their parents because with higher rents in addition to mortgages, that looks like the only option left. Why doesn't Okino just propose a bill to tax home owners for renting to their own children already and exploit all the options?
Permalink 01/18/08 @ 14:36
Comment from: islander [Visitor]
Kim said " Also, I think we can't disregard the fact that the way we in Hawaii view living with parents might be different from how some folks on the mainland view such a situation. Our culture here is dominated by Asian traditions and cultural values, one of which is the importance of family."

Let's not forget about the Polynesians here. THe Polynesians also believe in extended families. They have many generations in one household. The same is true about the Micronesians here!

Permalink 01/18/08 @ 19:43
Comment from: lava [Visitor]
Kim,

It doesn't appear that anyone outside your generation has criticized your choice. Allow me.

The point you don't seem to recognize is that $800 in rent is not $800, it is actually much more. Here is my thinking.

If you don't make enough to fully fund a 401K and an IRA, then don't move out. If you socked away $5000 in an IRA at your age, it would be worth a lot by the time you are 70. The government isn't going to take care of you, social security is running out, and people are living longer. If you make this sacrifice now, it will literally pay huge dividends in the future.





Permalink 01/18/08 @ 19:56
Comment from: Hammerin Hank [Visitor]
Maybe your parents are giving each other high fives now that the door has closed behind you. This situation can cut both ways.
Permalink 01/18/08 @ 20:21
Comment from: Kim [Member]
Marc -

I was in a dorm, but on a tiny campus of about 2,000 students in the middle of nowhere, so we usually just ate at the dining hall with a meal plan. I was able to cook just enough when I finally went off the meal plan, but I never learned more than the basics. Sad, yes, I know.

islander -

Very true. Thank you for pointing that out.

lava -

Good point. Also something people in my generation don't think about. I've been meaning to start a Roth IRA for a while and will do it this year before April 15.

Hank -

I think you're probably right! Now they have a spare room in which to put the vacuum cleaner.




Permalink 01/18/08 @ 22:26
Comment from: Marc [Visitor]
I also need to start a Roth IRA. Maybe for a future blog, Kim? Would be good to see what you find as well as everyone elses experiences/knowledge.
Permalink 01/18/08 @ 22:56
Comment from: KalaniGal [Visitor]
Your parents were overbearing? They stunted your growth and maturity? It sounds like your a fairly successful 20-something. From reading your blog, I'm sure you are smart and can take care of yourself. Seems to me you have your head screwed on right. Where did your parents go wrong? Seems like they did an awesome job of raising you. Stop your whining. Can I trade my folks for yours?
Permalink 01/18/08 @ 23:39
Comment from: Nick Snarko [Visitor]
Re: rayboyjr's comments-

1. I live with my parents. Other people PAY US rent. =)
2. Said rent pretty much covers all the utilities. I pay my med insurance and life insurance.
3. I clean.... on occasion. Hehe
4. Did I mention that I moved out of my parents' home in 1999, moved with them when they changed residence in 07, and now I'm an owner with paying tenant? And property maintenance (see above).
5. Unfortunately I have no social life. Being a non-drinker, and not owning my own car, does that to you.

So if there are any young renters (esp. cute chicks!) looking for a place less than $2000/mo, get in touch with me at HADB. LOL
Permalink 01/19/08 @ 00:08
Comment from: TRD [Visitor]
Don't forget the best reason of all - you can bring your boyfriend home anytime you want. It sure beats the back seat of a Honda Civic.
Permalink 01/19/08 @ 01:24
Comment from: lava [Visitor]
Here is food for thought:

If at age 25 you stuck away $5,000 and let it grow for the next 45 years at 6%, when you turn 70 you would have enough money to take out $5,660 each year for the 20 years following (your age 70 through 90).

If the money were to grow at 8%, the total available for distribution when you are 70 to 90 would increase nearly 3x to $15,051.70 per year.
Permalink 01/19/08 @ 07:49
Comment from: anon [Visitor]
@lava - that is assuming you will live till 70. with the annual inflation rate hovering around four percent, $5,600/year will not be enough to cover the costs of medication at that age.

a better goal would be to break free from the 401ks, iras, retirement plans, pensions, social security, etc and be financially successful enough to NOT depend on any of that.

after all, who wants to work until 65?


@kim - moving out and living on your own for the first time is one of the greatest things you can experience at that age. at $2,000+/month for rent & utils, it's an expensive but rewarding life experience. well, except when it's time to clean the bathroom.

Permalink 01/19/08 @ 10:04
Comment from: BC [Visitor]
someone's onto something. anon hit it on the nail. Plus, you cna't just apply for a 401K, and they cost thousands of dollars to manage a year dependent on the size of your business. Also, IRA contributions decrease as your salary increases. It's always good to budget, of course. But, if you want to play with the stock market, you're better of betting on Birkshire Hathaway B as long as Warren Buffet is alive. You'll make more than your IRA. You just have to keep an eye on it. I'd recommend BRK A, but for this crowd that's a bit pricey. I'd also say that stocks, IRAs and 401Ks are not option A. Pool your ideas and money with friends and start a business first that can generate liquid cash fast. Then, expand from there into real estate assets and liquid assets. Good luck!
Permalink 01/19/08 @ 10:59
Comment from: lava [Visitor]
Anon,

You completely missed the point. The best way to avoid having to work at age 65 is to start saving now, and a tax-deferred vehicle is the best way to do that.

Also, I wasn't suggesting that $5000 per year would be enough to live on. What I was suggesting is that $5000 put away now would grow into a much greater sum later.

Chances are if you put $5000 away from ages 23 to 33 and invest it wisely, you would have a very nice nest egg for retirement.
Permalink 01/20/08 @ 09:15
Comment from: Wes [Member]
Hi Kim,

First-time reader, first-time commenter. Good blog.

I stayed home for my first two years of college, saved up $5,000, then spent almost all of it while on an exchange program in California (helped pay for housing, meals, bills) the following year.

But I still consider it money well spent because of the personal growth I experienced being away from my comfort zone.

Contrary to KalaniGal's impression, I don't think saying that is a knock on our parents. They can do a great job raising kids, but at some point the kids should leave the nest and learn things on their own.

As others mentioned, there are many financial benefits to living at home, and sometimes it's a necessity. But you make a good point about weighing actual monetary costs vs. costs in personal growth.

Good luck!
Permalink 01/20/08 @ 14:46
Comment from: Jen [Visitor]
Congratulations on deciding to move out =) I made the leap and bought my own condo. I'm in my late 20s, and most of my friends are still at home with their parents. Some of them spend thousands of dollars on Louis Vuitton purchases or BMWs with fancy designer clothes...and living with parents at the same time. They have no idea how to pay rent or mortgage. Good for you for moving out at 23!
Permalink 01/21/08 @ 21:15
Comment from: eMH [Visitor] · http://stores.ebay.com/emarkethawaii
Like Jen above, I'm in my late 20's and recently purchased a condo. But I've been renting ever since graduating college so its been a long, rough ride to get where I am now (every other paycheck was swallowed up by just rent and food).

Living within your means is key. Of course, saving up is important too and I maxed out my Roth each year. Consider renting as your 'training ground' before you get a mortgage. Then things will really get fun :)
Permalink 01/22/08 @ 08:07

Comments are closed for this post.



FEEDS
RSS 0.92: Posts, Comments | RSS 1.0: Posts, Comments
RSS 2.0: Posts, Comments | Atom: Posts, Comments

spacer
Up Arrow Top

Space
MINI SITE MAP
LOCAL NEWS :
Education | Obituaries | Weather | Traffic hotspots | Military news | Discussion boards | Live chat | Columnists
SPORTS :
Surf report | UH sports | High school sports | Recreation | Sports calendar | On the Air | Golf report | National sports
ISLAND LIFE :
About Men/Women | Taste/Recipes | Faith calendar | Comics | TGIF calendar | Tube Notes | Pet Project
ENTERTAINMENT :
TGIF weekend calendar | 4-week guide | Movie showtimes | Dining | Visitors | National arts & leisure
BUSINESS :
Hawai'i stocks | Hawai'i mutual funds | Hawai'i mortgage rates | Island bank rates | Stock quotes | Moneywire | Coming events | Trade Winds | Local resources
OPINION :
Letters to the Editor | Dick Adair's cartoons | Submit a letter | Submit a commentary
TRAVEL :
Travel almanac | Currency rates | Destinations | Sunday travel ads
HELP PAGE :
Contact us | Back issues | Newspaper subscriptions | How to advertise | Frequently asked questions | About us | Site map | Terms of service | Corrections
CLASSIFIEDS :
Classified ads | Shopping | Coupons | Place an ad
PARTNERS :
Jobs: Careerbuilder.com | Cars: Cars.com | Apartments: Apartments.com
Space
© COPYRIGHT 2006 The Honolulu Advertiser, a division of Gannett Co. Inc.
Use of this site indicates your agreement to the Terms of Service and Privacy Policy (updated 6/7/2005)

MySQL error!

Table './blogs/evo_hitlog' is marked as crashed and should be repaired(Errno=145)

Your query:

INSERT INTO evo_hitlog( visitTime, visitURL, hit_ignore, referingURL, baseDomain, 
                                    hit_blog_ID, hit_remote_addr, hit_user_agent ) 
          VALUES( FROM_UNIXTIME(1246710747), '/quarterlifecafe.php/2008/01/18/moving_out', 'invalid',
                  '', '', 35, 
                  '38.103.63.56', 'CCBot/1.0 (+http://www.commoncrawl.org/bot.html)')