Behind the Headlines - Last comments

In response to: Do sex, politics and journalism mix?

3bpkielf http://www.348028.com/314595.html hlnoaf5i1za6t6

In response to: Why we rarely report suicides

The Advertiser has the right policy. For those in distress seeking the last way out, having their presence on earth marked in the paper would definitely be a source of encouragement, making treatment much more difficult.

I recall the incident of a middle aged co-worker over 20 years ago. We were called into a hastily called meeting early one morning and given the difficult news. Most of us didn't know of the person's struggle, and the ones that knew were very bummed. I'm sure people did what they could, but it was not enough. It would have been more traumatic for us if it was in the news, as he was a superb person. Hence we were told first. The end came in a public setting and not reported. I still think of that person from time to time.

Then, there are the circumstances that happen within the home. There are several I know of, and it puts a strain on the families and friends.

The topic of suicides should be covered constructively in a general article, and not covered on a case-by-case basis. The ending is the same and nothing more can be done to ease the circumstances of the past, only the future.

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

8jjbz1zeam780j9 http://www.241937.com/196807.html bkskeavqjrlhqu1

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

Whoo-hoo, kapena, GIVE 'EM!!!!

You know, as this story goes on, it's stinking to high-whatevers, you know?

I'm at the point now, where, heck, the press should mention the names. Petranik, you mentioned:

The public scrutiny and shame that comes with being linked to a crime should generally be reserved for adults.

Guess what? When you're an adult (I would imagine; I don't speak from personal experience because I behave -- more on this later), the humiliation part takes a back burner. If you're in the kind of trouble that warrants your name in the paper, you're worried about having to afford a lawyer, how you gonna come up w/bail money, whatever.

If this was handled correctly, though? If the press DID mention those four guys' names in a manner that a responsible press should? Woulda' struck fear into them into NEVER doing something like this again. AND would make the next set of classmates-with-apparently-too-much-time-on-their-hands think twice about destroying property that just so happens to not be their own parents' property.

So, at this point, Advertiser, no, I'm REALLY swaying toward seeing that local news agencies might've been wrong in not mentioning the names -- once it was established that these guys did the egg throwing (and, methinks they did -- after all, the St. Louis president read an apology from the foursome to the rest of the student body), the names and faces shoulda' been mentioned. I mean, homeowners need to be on the lookout for these guys, right? They did WRONGDOING that affects society as much as difficult-to-remove egg residue that's been baking on a house for several days if not months.

And St. Louis president Kirimitsu . . . give me a BREAK! "These are good kids"? No, bruddah, I, and many other folks who never engaged in this kind of nonsensical behavior of egg-throwing in high school or at any point in our lives, are the REAL good kids -- don't discredit our efforts of doing the right thing via refraining from doing the wrong thing, like this foursome did.

I'd take to streets with a crowd that carries banners saying "name 'em, name 'em, name 'em!!!" But, you know what the diamond in the rough here is? That the ol' saying "Hawaii is a small place" fits very well in this situation.

I mean . . . just because the Advertiser or any other news agency never mentioned these guys' names, no one in the islands know these guys names right? Right?

Comment from: kapena [Visitor]And if that weren't enough, just a few days later, the same punk goes out and picks up a hooker in Chinatown.

See? At least ONE of 'em didn't learn their lesson from the egg-throwing incident, at least in terms of not breaking the law. They ain't gonna be charged for anything, is what I'm hearing? What morning fresh BULL' if I ever smelled it. You can get a $75 ticket for jaywalking nowadays, but, if you accord potentially expensive damage to a home someone's spent their entire life paying off, you don't get charged? I hope to god HPD or the prosecutor's office reviews this decision, IF in fact the foursome ain't gonna be charged.

Bring back the draft, I say. Some o' these kids need some military training to shape 'em up.

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

I live in Lanikai...I would have done the same thing as Jervis. I'm glad he did what he did. Other than being under the influence, this action wasn't all that bad.

If it weren't Jervis, it wouldn't be a story. If he weren't allegedly drunk, it wouldn't be a story. He claims he stopped after the ran up the pole, the media continues to report the story as Jervis rear-ended the SUV.

You as an editor have coddled these so called "kids" into believing they can do anything they want and get off 'scott free' and the rest of the media, too.

The school administrators are guilty of the same. Last years events at Las Vegas only proves the point that the athletic department and the athletes themselves, CLEARLY have an attitude of "anything goes" and this story affirms that notion.

And if that weren't enough, just a few days later, the same punk goes out and picks up a hooker in Chinatown.

Do you truly believe this kid has learned anything from this so called life experience? I think he has. I know now that he has learned that his parents are a couple of idiots, his school has let him (and the rest of the St Louis students) down, his coaches haven't taught him anything "good" about life...only how to get away with things, and his buddies are probably close behind him in attitude.

I challenge St. Louis athletic department to....come to Lanikai on a Saturday morning, wear your "St. Louis" jerseys and spend the day cleaning the beach walks, and removing graffiti. Show the community you care, that you can do the right thing, and that there is a consequence to doing bad things.

EVERYONE knows that part of the learning experience is...if there is no consequence to breaking the law, everyone will do just that. EVERY aspect of this story has proven that.

Michelle Wie's performance is tied to "Punahou" every time she is mentioned in the media. These boys are described as St. Louis kids whenever they are mentioned. Your school, as a kid, is your life, thus you take the good with the bad...and the school does too!

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

Heard about the apology at the assembly. Co-worker's son who attends St. Louis said because of the incident the 08 class is now known as '0-eggs'.

Don't know if the downtown incident caused any more teasings, but news like this doesn't stay private in our small community.

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

O.K., so, as the saga continues . . . reportedly (I heard on news radio today), the accussed APOLOGIZED to their St. Louis classmates in an assembly, if I'm not mistaken.

Ergo . . . the fellow students, at least, know the names of the accussed.

I'm wondering if the names become SO known around town, would the Advertiser print the foursome's names for forthcoming stories? And if so, could they be labeled as not sticking to their guidelines. Justify printing their names a la "well, everybody knows the names already." I'm wondering how he names might look if the Advertiser opts to print them in a non-chalant way. OR will you folks provide an explanation ("sidebar," I believe you journalist types call it) as to why you might finally opt to mention the names.

This is beginning to sound like a reverse of Hawthorne's The Scarlet Letter. Oops, was they moi second literary reference regarding this case?

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

My comment from yesterday on another HA host's blog

A couple of generations back the acid from an egg thrown on a $2000 car cut through some enamel; someone who was good with a buffer could make that go away for $20. If a drunk guy got in his car to chase down the kid who threw the egg and killed somebody in the chase, that person was dead. The news is that the guy is a murderer.
Now the acid from an egg cuts through 2 mils of clearcoat and destroys a paint job on a $40000 car and costs $2000 to paint a couple of panels to blend it. A drunk guy gets in that car to chase the kid who threw the egg and kills somebody, that person is still dead. The news is that the guy was justified in going after the punks who caused so much damage.

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

Heh, still going on, eh?

Kinda' cooled down a bit. This coulda' been our "Bonfire of the Vanities" (Tom Wolfe).

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

I'm going to leave the 3/12, 20:23 post. The reference would only make sense to those who already know the name. The contributor made worthwhile comments that should stay on the site.

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

...and the 3/12, 20:23?

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

My bad. I deleted that comment that you referred to. Sorry it took so long.

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

Interesting that for such a dilemma as you purport to have that you would choose to still leave the 3/12, 07:15 comment on the blog four days later.

In response to: Warning: Know your gatekeeper

v8kAoV Hi from Russia!

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

U da man Jervis; you take a licking but keep on ticking; nothing keeps you down man and the community is fortunate to have great man like you in our presence, a man who isn't afraid to grab crime by the throat and hang it up on the nearst guy wire! Imua Kamehameha and alooooooha from Waianae.

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

Jervis did what all of us wish we could do. Kick the crap out of a bunch of spoiled kids whose parents have no idea where their kids are late at night. The parents are to blame, not Jervis. Jervis is the man, the Lanikai man, the protector of all who dare to ever throw another yellow egg at anyone again. Go egg'um Jervis, hard and fast and up the guy wire. You are hell on wheels and we love you Hawaiian! Hanohano, take your scholarship and shove it up where the sun don't shine because you ain't going to see it again spoiled punk.

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

I'm beginning to stick with "precedent" -- Advertiser, if you mentioned "minors" names when reporting a crime in the past, so you probably should do in this case; if for the only reason that "fair is fair."

I just watched the news, Jervis making his court appearance for this matter. What's being reported is eggs were thrown at this guy's house on a regular basis.

Guys ("same guys"?) throwing eggs at your house? On a regular basis? Yeah, you might call the cops, but, you ALSO might end up following the guys, too, in ya'll's own car.

This is a crime. Report it as such.

And, uh, don't look now, but, there were a few letters in support of Jervis in the Advertiser "letters to the editor" section.

Maybe we, the taxpayers, we who just want to relax at the end of the day after working our one long hour job or two to three jobs, maybe we're tired of the big boom box-loud exhaust sounding-and, now we can include egg-throwing crowd who comes from a certain age group. Time to TAKE BACK THE CITY should be the rallying cry. In a LEGAL sense, of course. Oh. Am I off-topic?

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

Steve,
remember that we're all human and all subject to human failings. The New York Governor is a recent example of do as I say and not as I do. Human failings are everywhere we find people. Thats why they make laws different for youths.
If Jerard hadn't gotten into his car and crashed it, would you be reporting the egging? Thats the crime the 4 students committed. Jerard went overboard when he saw four big teenagers in a SUV. If you leave it alone, that is how it will play out. I agree the prosecutor is going overboard. Don't play into their hands.

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

If the last blogger was really Geordan, I say pau already, no post da names. Let the courts deal with each of the cases. The youth are gonna get da rubba slippa, and Jerard had a right to get mad, but other witnesses, besides the teens, say he "rammed" their car. That puts him in a different category vis a vis their crimes. His good offense turned into junk offense. Thats the bottom line. My mana'o is that the boys are in the start of their lives. Give em chance to make something of their lives. Jerard can still have a life by taking the high road. Cunney did enough by calling them punks. The case State v. Jervis will show they were punks. But Geordan don't have to lose his scholarship. Just plenty detention, carry sign at Lanikai saying "I screwed up" something that will have a lifetime effect on him but still give him chance to move on and have a great life. Petty jealousy started this on their parts so they gotta pay some price, but no need shoot em. Junk we try shoot em.

In response to: Naming the Saint Louis football players

I will weigh in. I don't mean to sound facetious at times, but you must needs realize the Chicken Grease's gear, no?

Steven Petranik, news editor, ichiban wa ALL 24 ALL the time, mainichi desu yoGenerally, our policy is not to name juveniles involved in crimes unless it is an especially serious crime. The logic is that just as the courts treat juveniles differently than adults, so should a newspaper. The public scrutiny and shame that comes with being linked to a crime should generally be reserved for adults.

OK, so, the Advertiser DOES have guidelines on this sort of thing. So, you follow 'em. No problem.

HERE's the dilemma though -- you folks must needs go back and verify if you've NEVER (erratums notwithstanding) mentioned a high school/teenager name in tandem with a misdemeanor or crime having been committed. I mean, fair's fair, right?

I mean, as long as you're following what the courts (law?) does.

2ndly . . . you guys may need to come up with a decision fast. If this thing starts to erupt, best believe the CNNs, MSNBCs, whatever, a-gonna come on down here. Maybe THEY'LL mention the names. We talkin' national, see? And ratings will decide whether the names are mentioned.

Here's my favorite:

Steven Petranik, shinbun editor, ichiban . . . etc.
4. By identifying them as Saint Louis football players, but not naming them, we place all members of the team under a cloud.

I think the Advertiser managed to put that entire school over a cloud by mentioning where those guys attend. 'Scuse me, but, BA-DOIIIIIIIINNNG! It's a problem to figure out whether you're going to mention the alleged 17-yr olds' names, but, you have no reservations putting the target on the entire student body? What is the paper's standard for having mentioned the school's name? I mean, if you left out the school's name, folks still woulda' managed to find out where the four attended, much the same as how those same folks might already know the names of the guys already (small island, people know other people, etc? You know?).

Please tell me your standard for naming the school doesn't stem from the obligatory "what school you went?!?!?" rhetoric that . . . that's just getting old.

I dunno, again, I'm expressing as I am and . . . this, this thing might take on a life of its own, you know?

Just ask yourself . . . what's the worse case scenario if you DO mention the names (that, well, I would imagine, at least some [OK, A LOT MAYBE?!] of which folks whose kids attend St. Louis probably know. And, well, those folks probably work . . . and people at work might know their kid attends St. Louis, and asks the whole, "eh, yo' kid know th' guys who w'en t'row . . ."

Bottom line . . . I guess if you're following your established guidelines (gotta have principles, no?) and, well, I guess if legal says "no, cannot say the names," then, that's that, no?

I hope no other body makes you guys mention the names, in this case; despite ya'll principles.